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The Associated Worlds
Offtopic / random
Irrelevant whatever.
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That said, I have some trouble in making a good argument here myself because I have yet to figure out just why continuity is key from the point of view of a continuitist, and I'd very much like to be able to steel-man their position. About the closest I've come (from looking at, say, from @Zarpaulek above's "even if this entity that has never participated in the sensory inputs and physical discrete/continuous hybrid decision-making trees that formed the gestalt that called itself the original were somehow the same as the original") is approximating it as "essence is provenance" or "ontology is ontogeny" - i.e., that what objects were at time (t - n) changes what objects are at time t, even if they're provably identical at t. This doesn't seem to me to be a particularly coherent position outside the realms of artificial scarcity and sentimentality, however, so I'm reasonably confident that I'm missing something somewhere.
07:40
(On another note, I'm also distinctly uncertain as to how one can be sure that one has continuity of consciousness in the first place. By definition, one can't be conscious of discontinuities in one's own consciousness - except by reference to external events, which is why petit mal seizures feel so damn weird. I mean, to use a computer analogy, every program running in a preemptively multitasking OS runs, from its point of view, continuously and without interruptions. Which is very much not the case.)
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There are a bunch of interesting thoughts to be had on this subject, but I will have have them later, because I need to sleep.
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Fair enough. Good interruption-of-consciousness-time! 😄
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The way I see it, consciousness isn't an "app" per se, if it even exists it's a component of the gestalt that comprises your identity. That gestalt comprises your brain, your body, and the memes you carry, and it's constantly in flux. With components coming and going or simply going inactive. When you sleep your sensory and motor neurons are "on standby" while other agents in the gestalt fire up. Instancing a backup copy of someone's brain pattern and calling that the person who was scanned though? That's like excavating a river in Antarctica patterned after the pre-GERD Nile and calling it the Nile.
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MarcusAurelius 06/16/2018 1:58 PM
To try a different analogy: your brain and the rest of your body is the hardware, the physical object your self runs on. Your consciousness is the operating system, and the memes and other influences on it are firmware.
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Nope
13:59
Software's a tasklist processed by a calculator.
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To transfer some analogies from elsewhere and save retyping: "Try a different hypothetical: if Alien Space Bats take an instant to swap out every particle in your body, while exactly copying their arrangement and state, are you dead? I say no. Your definitions would appear to say yes. More importantly: if this had happened five minutes ago, how could you determine whether you were dead or not?"
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I wouldn't be around to tell.
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(A follow-up pointed out that in the case of teleportation, beaming someone up and down again when they sleep manages to murder them twice without them ever being aware of it. The sheer perfection of this crime aside, I submit that such a bizarre result is cause for reconsideration of the theory that gives rise to it.)
14:02
...ah, bugger. Got to go, appliance being delivered. Back later.
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You could just as easily leave the copy on the planet alive and trigger an identity crisis.
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(Actually, the really fun thing is not just that I can murder people twice without them noticing, but I can do it without changing the state of a single particle in their bodies. And should anyone ever invent the transporter, this is absolutely going to be my new supervillain plot.)
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To me, a mindstate is at hard two things: A system configuration map And system activity, as vectors, on this configuration.
14:53
That data format can be transfered between any substrate able to assume the configuration map and load and then execute the activity vector data.
14:54
With the configuration map describing the "How" of the mindstate, while the activity vectors describe the "Is"
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Okay. Fully back now, so second self-quote: "See, I'm with you there right up to the "whole continuity thing" bit, 'cause I'm in total agreement on the importance and value of the consciousness, mind-state, non-supernatural soul, whatever you want to call it. What I don't get is where the continuity element comes into it. For one thing, I am deeply skeptical that it - continuity of consciousness , in the awareness/self-awareness sense - exists in the first place: people enter non-dreamstate sleep, faint, become unconscious, suffer seizures, are electrocuted, lose chunks of time, wake up from comas or states near-indistinguishable from clinical death, etc., with brain activity all futzed up or effectively ceased, all the damn time, and don't seem to have existential issues - nor, albeit less relevantly, does anyone seem to think that someone different woke up. And while whiny ethics boards prevent us from doing this with humans, animals have been cryonically frozen and seemed to be the same animals when they were revived. Preservation of pattern seems to matter, since severe brain damage can reshape or erase personality, but from such evidence as we have, you can reboot the hell out of consciousness and consciousness is robust enough to come back up just as it was. But leaving that aside for a moment - we seem to be assuming that the consciousness can't be copied? Unless we get supernatural about it, it's got to be embodied in the brain, so if you copy the brain, you copy the consciousness. So... If you imagine a one-step destructive copy process, a true move, you're just moving my consciousness from over here to over there . From my perspective, it's no different than going to sleep in the car and waking up somewhere else; I experience a brief discontinuity and then carry on right where I left off. And a copy-and-delete is functionally equivalent to a move."
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15:21
"Where it gets fiddly is when there are two running/conscious instances of me running around, because as soon as we get back up and running again post-copy, we start to diverge and aren't identical mes any more. (Eventually, we'd diverge enough to be two completely different people, but even before then, killing one of me would be reducing the total me, as it were, because of the unique developments in the consciousness of the copy, and I would heartily object to that. I wouldn't object to merging diffs of myself back together, though. As for suicide: in general, I suspect that I'd only be willing to spin off a copy of myself that wasn't going to be left to diverge or reintegrated for purposes sufficiently heroic and bloody stupid that I'd be willing to die for them now , or maybe slightly less so, but certainly not routinely, because losing the developed uniqueness of the copy would lessen the greater me. But for a copy-and-delete/move? I never diverge from myself, so every single bit of my consciousness is preserved. There's nothing to be lost, so I can't even see that as suicide."
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I just had this discussion also on the Orion's Arm discord the other day, and I think one can expand the fork and divergence debate by also introducing another idea. Suppose we define the mind as a mixture of core identifiers and pheriphial identifiers. Let's call them "Ghost" and "Ego" for the sake of having a few words we can use in this discussion.
15:49
The Ghost, as core identifiers, is by definition the more static of those two partitions. Both concatenate the whole, but they can be defined separately. That means you can fork, diverge, and re-unite and keep a core "Ghost" essentialy undivergent throughout the entire time.
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Morgrim Moon 06/17/2018 2:56 AM
"I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code."
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Maybe it‘s Java? 😛
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@Overmind I'm getting ready to spin up a project with significant worldbuilding required. Do you have any useful info on personal wikis or whatever for tracking everything?
21:18
(although quite a bit will be in a physical notebook I must admit)
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I personally use OneNote to keep my works organized
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I used one note, but now avoid it, because it's propitary, and it slows down massively above a certain volume of notes.
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I currently use ConnectedText, which has a variety of good features, but also some annoying limitations. On the other hand, it copes with my 13,000 Wiki pages without falling over, which is a bonus.
21:34
Also OneNote, to keep my unsorted ideas and random inspiration sorted.
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That said, CT is starting to look like development has been abandoned, so while it’s still perfectly good and functional, I’ve been looking around for a decent alternative myself, probably web-based. The trouble is, all the Wiki software I can find, well, sucks.
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that's what drove me towards OneNote in the first place. and I fully admit to being able ot get the M$ ecosystem for dirt cheap, so it's a little less of an issue for myself.
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Thanks everyone!
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I will say that for myself, onenote has the advantage of being drag and drop.
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Has anyone tried, like, hosting a copy of the wikipedia software (I forget what it's called), and just using that for thier world-building?
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Morgrim Moon 06/20/2018 1:12 AM
Yes. Unless you have a huge amount of stuff and intense cross referencing, it's not really worth it
01:12
Mediawiki can be pretty resource heavy because it's optimised for huge.
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Ah, fair enough.
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Morgrim Moon 06/20/2018 2:07 AM
Dokuwiki is a good alternative if less than 3 people will be editing simultaneously
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Hey, folks around here might want to know there's a bundle of holding for eclipse phase around now? Not sure how much people like that game these days, or if it's a good deal, but it's there!
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Enderminion 06/20/2018 9:55 AM
you realize that Eclipse Phase is free, on their website
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bundle holding is pay what you like anyway
10:09
i mean, I rather enjoy Eclipse Phase, I'm just waiting for the Second Edition to drop
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Everything in that bundle is free on eclipse phases website besides the soundtrack (edited)
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Of course, if you buy it, you support the Devs.
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(not a bad soundtrack either)
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Bundle of holding is not pay what you like; it has a pretty high minimum.
22:15
But I vaguely remembered that they had stuff on the internet, which is why I said I wasn't sure how good value it was. Is that all the sourcebooks/adventures too?
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http://eclipse-phase.wikia.com/wiki/Chuck%27s_Eclipse_Phase_Wiki Is my usual reference. Mostly what you miss out on by not having the actual books is a bunch of cool book-art
Your mind is software. Program it. Your body is a shell. Change it. Death is a disease. Cure it. Extinction is approaching. Fight it. Eclipse Phase. Post-apocalyptic Transhuman Conspiracy Horror.
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There are some scenarios that you can only buy on drivethrurpg however, all the books can be found herehttps://robboyle.wordpress.com/eclipse-phase-pdfs/
Many thanks to everyone who contributed to the Kickstarter for Eclipse Phase, Second Edition! The Eclipse Phase roleplaying game is released under a Creative Commons license. To facilitate access t…
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The scenarios include some unique information, like an extinct alien confederation whose pseudo-AGIs infect a facility.
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One of the people in my gaming group has been trying to get me into Stars Without Number
17:47
It has optional rules for transhumanism, and this is how it handles forking.
17:47
17:48
That is not how brain uploading works
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Eh, I think it is acceptable, considering the framework of sentience here is obviously different.
05:11
(Course, it means just being an Infomorph has massive advantages)
05:12
Overall, it's honestly not a bad role, @Zarpaulek
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ELIEZER: I like this scenario. It is weird, and I like weird. I would derive endless pleasure from inflicting this state of affairs on reality and forcing people to come to terms with it.
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Notice how they mention 'hard transhuman sectors' and 'soft transhuman sectors'. This is an optional rule wih multiple settings. To me it seems like 'hard' mode would be more accurate, but soft is there for people who want to dabble with the ideas without going into the deep forking route.
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It seems like the general assumption is that games all take place in the same universe but different regions of space (which would be randomly generated) follow different laws of physics.
15:30
I'm currently trying to work out how STL starships might work. It helps a little that I found a supplement with rules for in-system ships without the default reactionless drive/perfect ECM/nuke snuffer.
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1. The teleportation centre is in the Himalayas. The view, of course, is incredible; they arranged it so that the power plant and its outflows are at the back of the complex. All you see as a client...
22:18
Someone has a, uh, foolish design when it comes to teleporters.
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yeah, and the legal system doesn't really seem to have a response to how to handle forking
12:08
like, they should have run into the forking issue much earlier than this
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I think this a classic case of what Cerebrate was talking about earlier, where people ignored the implications for the sake of convenience.
19:38
somewhere I have a photo of of a 350 taking up four small car parking spots
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Morgrim Moon 06/29/2018 8:58 PM
directly outside my house is a clearway area, parking during offpeak but no parking during rush hours. Enforced not by ticketting, but by very enthusiastic towtrucks
20:59
I take more enjoyment than I should at watching them dart in and whisk away cars that park there anyway. Especially the drivers that come racing out and complain that they "were only going to take 5 minutes~!"
21:00
(half the city's buses come thundering down that strip during rush, anyone parking there drastically slows everything. Even if they're there 5 minutes)
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Anarcho-socialism for the win
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Enderminion 07/02/2018 5:02 PM
Anarcho anything is terrible
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Ain’t no such thing, any more than there is anarcho-capitalism.
17:05
(Well, okay, there are things that call themselves that, but prescribing an economic system to use makes you a feelthy archist, comrade.)
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I suppose that’s true
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Okay, how did I only just find the Equestriaverse?
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Which?
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Technicolor space opera ponies in space.
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Wait, there’s another one? Link plz.
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I just meant which in the sense of "I have no idea of what you speak". I don't know of any other such projects.
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Ah, ‘kay.
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Sorry to get your hopes up.
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Morgrim Moon 07/07/2018 8:59 PM
minor rant of the day: Chrome, I know flash files can be dangerous, but if it is sitting on my desktop and I repeatedly say it is safe and I disable your blocking, that means I really DO want you to open it. Not to constantly tell me it could be a danger. I know it's not a danger. That's why I'm telling you to open it. And telling you it is safe. And you KEEP IGNORING ME. (I had to use INTERNET EXPLORER to open it instead.)
20:59
I did not realise before today that you cannot whitelist your own desktop as a safe domain.
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Deleted User 07/07/2018 9:01 PM
@Morgrim Moon TIL 😃
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Morgrim Moon 07/07/2018 9:01 PM
I assume there is some technical reason for it, but I'm annoyed. I have IE open, I feel I am allowed to be annoyed.
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Deleted User 07/07/2018 9:02 PM
I concur.
21:02
Have you Googled to find out if there is a workaround?
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Morgrim Moon 07/07/2018 9:03 PM
yeah, but it keeps telling me "just mark it as safe/just disable the blocking", neither of which worked, so making me think it's a recent thing.
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Deleted User 07/07/2018 9:04 PM
You Googled how to mark it as safe and how to disable the blocking?
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Morgrim Moon 07/07/2018 9:07 PM
yes. And searching further now, seems it's a known bug in chrome but google have marked it "will not fix"
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Deleted User 07/07/2018 9:07 PM
O.O
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Morgrim Moon 07/07/2018 9:07 PM
They're intending to purge Flash entirely in 2020 so don't see the point 😒
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john dougan(his grace/his grace) 07/07/2018 9:11 PM
That is a very Google thing to do. (edited)
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Morgrim Moon 07/07/2018 9:15 PM
I mean, it would be nice if they'd telll me this rather than their UI implying that all I have to do is figure out how to mark it as okay and things will run.
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yeah, a warning saying "Flash is deprecated due to a constant stream of security issues" would be a lot more clear.
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You will abide by our unexplained decisions and you will enjoy it
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Morgrim Moon 07/09/2018 9:51 AM
nroamlly that's the sort of thing that would make me shrug and use Brave, but Brave also does not open Flash. (Although at least it helpfully tells you that it doesn't)
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BluejayHurricane 07/09/2018 11:37 AM
This might not be the place for it, but I figured if anyone would enjoy this, it would be you guys. It's a failure review report of Apollo 13, including a great overview of the Saturn V and the sequence of events that occurred. https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19700076776.pdf
21:00
He misses a few points.
21:00
Namely the fact that many governments base their names on blatant lies.
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john dougan(his grace/his grace) 07/10/2018 12:37 AM
Deutsche Demokratische Republik
00:37
He does mention that the names may be for appearances
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MarcusAurelius 07/10/2018 12:38 AM
USA is pretty solid
00:38
So is UK
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Morgrim Moon 07/10/2018 12:38 AM
USA is a hideous name
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john dougan(his grace/his grace) 07/10/2018 12:38 AM
USA has weakened since 1787
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MarcusAurelius 07/10/2018 12:38 AM
I meant in terms of accuracy
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Morgrim Moon 07/10/2018 12:38 AM
It doesn't have a good short form that doesn't implicate TWO WHOLE CONTINENTS
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MarcusAurelius 07/10/2018 12:39 AM
how about US?
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john dougan(his grace/his grace) 07/10/2018 12:39 AM
The use of the word States isn't as true as it was. United Provinces might be closer now
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Morgrim Moon 07/10/2018 12:40 AM
I'm meaning you talk aboug "amercians" and hope context is clear, or "yanks" and put up with the one's you're talking about being upset at you
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MarcusAurelius 07/10/2018 12:40 AM
Eh. States still have a lot more autonomy and variance in laws than their equivalents in other developed nations
00:40
oh. good point. Well, that's what the Monroe Doctrine's for, I guess
00:40
fixing annoying denonyms
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newpercepliquis: “ thatdiabolicalfeminist: “ a lot of people are talking about how it’s pointless to boycott Amazon during the strike bc Amazon has so many subsidiaries that it seems impossible to...
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Well, darn. I just placed a big Amazon order, and if I'd waited, I could have made damn certain it fell into the boycott/strike period.
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tries to think of things it would be useful to order
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Apparently we're supporting Amazon just by using Discord, seeing as it's an AWS app. Netflix, too. Hell, actually, these people should boycott all AWS-hosted services if they really care about starving the beast. It'll be a dark, cold, boring week.
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Unrelated to that, rephrasing a great book "History of Earth and life on it": Life appears from energy differentials. You have high point, you have low point, you have flow. Add some turbulence, you get chaos, and in chaos you may find a cycle. Cycles are created and destroyed, pretty much randomly, but once in a while you will find one that can replicate itself by pulling some more energy from the flow. That's life.
14:58
It replicates itself, with error, those cycles that replicate with better capability to extract and preserve energy in more cycles replicate better, that's evolution.
14:59
Complexity grows.
15:00
Oh, and from all that we can see that both life is by default counter-entropic, and that universe spontaneously creates systems to slow down progress of entropy.
15:02
Only first paragraph is from the book, I need to reread it...
15:03
Dunno if people here saw that view on life, but it goes nicely with Eldraic look on the whole "Heat Death of the Universe"
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why is there supposed to be an amazon strike again?
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@NHO I like that.
15:29
adds to reading list.
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It's in russian
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@NHO ...well, that may be a problem. 😐
15:32
@o11o1 Working conditions and low pay, basically. (Which complaints are both true: monkeys hate being used as a cheap substitute for robots, and the latter is set by the market, which doesn't pay well for cheap substitutes for robots.)
15:35
And yet somehow my sympathy for people who voluntarily take a deal and then try to unilaterally renegotiate by threatening their counterparty fails to engage.
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https://flibusta.is/b/373975 here it is. Sadly, only Last Ringbearer is a translated book of his.
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But how voluntary is it really if the only other job opportunities are even worse or they were mislead about the working conditions?
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those are two very different things, should not be combined
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That's paracoercive, not coercive, and as said in the relevant post, para- in this case means "not really". (The complete and comprehensive set of things other people owe you out with agreement, just like that of things you owe other people likewise, after all is zero . It's not like Amazon has to employ anyone, on any terms, if they don't feel like it.) (edited)
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Or stated another way: "The minimum wage is always zero"
15:56
(Economics and Reality are cold indifferent bitches like that)
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It's the reverse-slavery scenario. You can't force people to work for you on terms you dictate, the corollary of which is that you can't force people to employ you on terms you dictate either. Ethics is symmetrical.
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I'm pretty sure none of this counters a strike being a perfectly reasonable behavior?
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A strike is a willful breach of contract, backed up by the threat of violence (i.e., not only will you not work, but you won't let anyone else work in your place). If you find the conditions unacceptable to you, quit. If you think it should be unacceptable for anyone, try to persuade the other employees to quit along with you, and everyone else not to get hired there. But trying to blackmail concessions out of your employer using means that would be blatantly, obviously illegal in any other scenario is twice-toasted bullshit.
16:03
Or, since ethics is symmetrical, is it also perfectly reasonable for an employer to get his employees to accept a pay cut by locking the factory gates and refusing to pay them, while having his goons prevent them from taking a job elsewhere? (edited)
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butbutbutbutbut This offends my God Marx!
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Yeah, that's basically an unpleasant solution to the asymertry of the jobs market. There isn't really a good alternative. Also, I'm pretty sure that's what factories are doing here, when they shut down?
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Closing down is the equivalent of quitting.
16:07
I mean, as a business owner, if I had employees and if they tried that negotiating tactic on me , my closing down that business would, yes, be purely for the sake of delivering a giant fuck you to the people who thought they could get away with threatening me, but it's not like it's violating anyone's consent.
16:08
(I may have an overactive sense of vengeance. It's one of my many charming quirks. 😉 )
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Delightful.
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Hey, if you wanted to negotiate, you'd have come to the table and discussed it like gentlemen, and maybe we could come to a gentleman's agreement, or at least an understanding that it wasn't going to work out. Essentially, you die by the tactics you live by, and the employer-employee equivalent of a mugging makes me about as deeply invested in you not getting what you want as an actual mugging does me regarding the mugger. (edited)
16:11
As per Danegeld , y'know.
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What makes you think these employees haven’t tried negotiating?
16:12
Negotiation requires both parties agreeing to meet.
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I have no idea whether they had or not, but here's the thing: even if they had, being turned down entitles you to exactly nothing . Being told by your manager/supervisor that, sorry, it's a take-it-or-leave-it deal also entitles you to exactly nothing . A failed or lack of negotiation means you can either take the deal as presented, or you can not take the deal as presented. There is no third "having tried negotiations and not got what we wanted, now force is okay" option. (edited)
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Enderminion 07/10/2018 4:14 PM
so you should put down a strike with Machineguns and Poison Gas?
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Asymetric negotiation position. The whole point of unions and strikes and such are to ensure that there are two parties sufficiently similar level of negotiation skill and power that deals can be equitablly made.
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In many of the rust belt towns where these warehouses are built the options are work for Amazon or convince a government bureaucrat you need food stamps
16:16
And fairly often it’s not an either/or, the job doesn’t pay much
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@Enderminion You should put down a strike with a flurry of pink slips. But if strikers are occupying your property, blocking access, harassing employees, engaging in vandalism, yadda yadda, you have the same right of self-defense that you have against anyone else.
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Enderminion 07/10/2018 4:17 PM
except now you are firing on a (mostly) unarmed crowd
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What's the "people don't starve or enter indentured servitude" alternative here?
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@Zarpaulek To short circuit a very lengthy back-and-forth on the various ways of surviving in this world, let me cut straight to "so?". No-one owes you anything by virtue of your existence. If you don't like what Amazon is offering you, you are welcome to suck it up and do without it, just like you would have to do if there were no Amazon to make you the offer.
16:19
You. Do. Not. Own. Other. People. Or. Their. Stuff.
16:21
@Enderminion "Unarmed" is a crock. Lots of people in history have been harmed or killed by "unarmed" people, especially in crowds. Someone breaks in here and he's unarmed, for example, damn right I'm going to shoot the bastard; I'm a sedentary 43-year-old with no particular fighting skill, and they're, well, not.
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Enderminion 07/10/2018 4:22 PM
defending yourself from one person is heroic, defending yourself from a group of people with reasons to dislike you is not
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I think the people on the wrong end of lynch mobs might disagree.
16:23
Anyway, as a rule, I hold to the notion that if you don't want to get shot, you can not go around violating the rights of your fellow man. If you get a bunch of your mates together to do just that... well, you pretty much filed the Please Shoot Me Request Form, didn't you?
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Enderminion 07/10/2018 4:24 PM
there will be survivors, who will do their best to ruin your image
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I think the position "no- one owes you anything by virtue of your existence" is incompatible with any notion of rights, or of ethics generally.
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they dindu nuffin
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Can we stop with the shouting about violence, and start with the solving the problem?
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If I don't owe you anything, then I don't owe your your life or freedom.
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@xandeross not yours to grant
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@xandeross You don't. In the sense that you don't owe me any health care or to come break me out of any Afghan prisons.
16:28
@Archon There are many ways to solve the problem. Hell, I've written about my preferred ways to solve the problem, so that's all on record. The only point I am endeavoring to make is that you don't have any right, howsoever based, to draft arbitrary nonconsenting people into your preferred solution, and if that is required for all the solutions that you can think of, well then, you don't get to have a solution. It's an imperfect universe.
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Argh. [Insert long and pointless flamewar about statecraft here]
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Or, to put it another way: If my glorious dream came true and everyone in the world decided to obey the Fundamental Contract to the letter, we'd have solved a whole bunch of major social problems! No more murder, rape, battery, assault, or other violence. No more theft, or fraud, or imprisonment, or slavery. All those would have vanished like the morning dew. Now, there are still problems. So, in this scenario, is the correct thing to do to say, "Well, solving those problems without violating those rules is too damn hard, so turns out we're going to need some theft and slavery after all, 'kay?"
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Well it depends, are you from Commorragh?
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That - democracy, statecraft, the entire inglorious history of the government of man as expressed through political science - in many ways reads like an extended justification for why we need to carve out big exemptions in fundamental ethics because trying to do things ethically is too difficult. Well, so is picking your own damn cotton, and yet. (edited)
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Wasn’t there a story about the Empire wanting to execute a guy whose negligence caused employee deaths? http://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-warehouse-safety-and-deaths-2018-4
A new report from the nonprofit National Council for Occupational Safety and Health has put Amazon on its "dirty dozen" list for workplace safety.
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Like, fundamentally, this is a bad utilitarian answer, I think? In as much as it proposes a perfect world but not a way to go there or an actual course of action beyond sniping at Tumblr users. And I hate being the pessimistic realist type here. But like, I'm pretty sure we need taxes. Perfect consent requires reasonable alternatives. Either that, or I can say that buy continuing to live in nation x you are consenting to taxation, and use that to fund ubi, since that's really the only way I can see out of the markets for livelyhood being so fucked.
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It was more like the Bhopal disaster.
16:43
@Archon Well, yeah, I'm not a utilitarian, nor do I play one on TV.
16:45
(Also not a pragmatist, a realist, or many other similar schools.)
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Enderminion 07/10/2018 4:46 PM
link?
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To which? (edited)
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Yeah, and I get that. And the reasons for it. Which is why I m so annoyed about having to take this counterpoint.
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And, really, there is a way to get there, but it turns out it's really quite difficult to persuade everyone else in the world to follow the normatively correct ethical and moral system. I'm working on that. Might take a while, though. 🤔
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But - and here's the real takeaway I should like to leave everyone with - foundations matter . We live very much in a culture of non-consent . Everything from governance to personal relationships is steeped in a deep, thick, toxic miasma of it, enough so that all too much of the time it's the first resort, the preferred solution, not even the last, regrettable one. And you can't build a castle in a swamp. Not even the fourth one. I can't guarantee that all other economic, social, etc. problems will become instantly much more tractable once we kill non-consent culture and the rapist morality behind it dead and hammer a stake through its heart, but I'm pretty sure it's the smart way to bet.
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Enderminion 07/10/2018 5:00 PM
heh
17:00
DC was built on a swamp, literally (edited)
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So was Rome
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MarcusAurelius 07/10/2018 5:05 PM
and Houston, and a lot of other major cities
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The water is so attractive to trade
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It's a metaphor and a reference, folks, just roll with it, 'k? 😝
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Hypothesis: in the same way that a soph is culpable for the actions they take while drunk (having chosen to drink); a society is culpable for the actions of the leaders they vote into power (having chosen to elect).
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MarcusAurelius 07/10/2018 5:07 PM
Rome's the weird exception here, since it's actually not on the coast. It's on a swamp because they decided to build in a massive drainage field between seven hills
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@MarcusAurelius Yeah, but the river trade, right?
17:08
@o11o1 I would concur, even if the implications are... unfortunate.
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MarcusAurelius 07/10/2018 5:08 PM
not really. Rome's major shipping was through Ostia, which was only founded after the city got too big to feed itself IIRC
17:12
The Tiber didn't lead to any other major cities. It was Rome's water supply, sewage drain, and the moat that allowed their main hospital to be quarantined from the city proper
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Were there farms upriver on the Tiber?
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I was thinking a bit along the lines of Rome being a slaver state that fed its population through extortion
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MarcusAurelius 07/10/2018 6:08 PM
There were probably farms upriver, though how much they contributed to feeding the city I don't know. Rome mostly fed itself off the surrounding country side until it got huge, when Campania, then Sicily, then Egypt became the main grain sources, especially as the countryside around Rome slowly transitioned to the massive fruit, wine, and olive oil farms of the elite. Extortion is an odd way to put it. Most of their grain supply came from places Rome had annexed (aggressively), not independent states. And Rome had surprising upward mobility out of slavery by modern standards, and slaves had relatively more freedoms (usually) compared to the way we conceive that word today.
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The USA also had legal routes for emancipation when slavery was legal
18:12
And Rome kept the local rulers in their provinces until they proved themselves too troublesome to deal with, then the governors they sent there turned from something akin to ambassadors with armies to a role closer to what we associate with the term “governor”.
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MarcusAurelius 07/10/2018 6:13 PM
yes, but it was relatively rare and relied on the goodwill of the owner. Slaves in Rome were actually allowed to own property of their own to some degree (even potentially including slaves of their own), and many of the more skilled ones eventually bought their freedom.
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Morgrim Moon 07/10/2018 7:35 PM
the roman slavery was more typical of how slavery worked historicially. I don't like it when the USA cotton slavery is used as examples of slavery, because that was a weird outlier on pretty much every scale, and yet so many people consider is the 'default'.
19:36
One interesting roman mechanism is that having lots of slaves wasn't a mark of success as much as being patron to a large number of willing cliens. And if you freed a slave they became your cliens until they told you to fuck off. So there was a social incentive there to free slaves for status.
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So, were coloni a form of agricultural cliens that lost their rights until they became serfs?
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MarcusAurelius 07/10/2018 8:18 PM
He's talking on a personal level. And yeah I get your point, but since most people use American slavery as their reference point you need to point out the differences.
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Oh good, Patreon finally rolled out "pay up front" for everyone.
21:34
What took them so long?
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MarcusAurelius 07/10/2018 11:18 PM
so I finally watched that Templin Institute video that was posted higher up, and I actually got pretty proud of myself that my own person projects passed all his checkpoints
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The delightful historical fact - at least for us cynics - is that lots of slave-owners in the US south tried to adopt the Roman model in which you basically tell your competent slaves to go off and start businesses and give you a cut of the profits with the promise of buying yourself free with the rest eventually, because it was more profitable, fixed the incentive problem, and by virtue of both that and holding out a sliver of hope, saved you a lot of time, money, annoyance, and big dudes with whips. Naturally, such attempts were instantly crushed by the local government, which was firmly in the hands of the people who preferred maximizing assholery to satisfying other values. Sort of a parable right there, when you think about it.
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I Knew some of the stuff they were doing made no economic sense. I'm glad to verify it from a source other than my intuition.
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There's also the segregation/Jim Crow period, in which when you look into the details of the history, is absolutely rife with various businesses, etc., trying to serve all races and share facilities for the sake of good, clean profit, which is the larger part of why quite so much legislation was needed to ensure that they didn't . But since the Racist Asshole Caucus didn't have to bear the costs themselves directly...
01:00
(It's one of those go-to examples for us over here in the Greed Is Good, Democracy Not So Much faction. 😀 )
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the-defiant-fluffball: “ singing-hedgehog: “ optometrictzedek: “ tumblr is massively wrong about the Amazon strike and there are a few key people trying to get the right information out and y’all are...
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Morgrim Moon 07/12/2018 10:44 PM
Issues with chains of custody: discovering every clock in the lab is showing a slightly different time, because someone passed on a sample taken 'after' it was received. (Relativity in action!)
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Today in "things that should only happen in the future once death is a temporary condition": https://bgr.com/2018/07/11/paypal-debt-collection-letter-dead-widow-wtf/
PayPal has never had a reputation for being a particularly upstanding organization to deal with, but its latest public misstep shows that there is nothing in this life or the next that can stop the…
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...To be honest, if you get struck with a Terms of Service violation for Bodyloss, it is still backassward.
14:43
Now, if an Alpha/copy-sophont of yours died, I think that is more interesting.
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Hey, voluntary actual death, which includes choosing tor remain dead, or other identity-abolishing transitions while bound by contract is definitely straight-up wilful breach.
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Okay, yeah, that indeed is.
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Likewise, transition to infomorph if you're under contract to remain corporeal for whatever reason.
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(It wasn't in this case, though. The woman died by external cause, so I assumed we were discussing contract breaches within the context of external factor bodyloss/Ego-loss)
14:46
/who would formulate such a shitty-ass contract and remain in the game.
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Well, technically, if you're body's killed by external causes and you don't have current incarnation insurance, that can qualify as an involuntary breach.
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involuntary breach ...How the heck are you supposed to rectify that? ...Lleaving aside that one would think resleeving insurance in a post-scarcity system is about that side of hard to do. (edited)
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Much as our mortgage lenders want you to have insurance cover that pays them off if you find yourself unable, the lack of which is a breach, a lot of lenders, etc., there want to be damn sure that you'll come back and fulfil your half of the agreement.
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14:49
Well, they'll get the Court of Claims to issue an injunction to drag your ass out of the afterlife, the costs being added to your bill.
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14:50
Death will, fairly notoriously, not release you.,
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In other words, check your contracts before issueing a ODNR, or the ODNR will be a COTR very soon.
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Pretty much, yeah.
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Honestly? Under considerations of about everything, that is fair.
14:52
Because the only way you can get yourself locked in that kind of awkward situation is by not reading what you enter yourself into, which is stupid.
14:53
And IIRC it isn't even hard to get some party of agency to check that stuff en detail for you. (edited)
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And, of course, while death will not release you from terrible debt, bankruptcy just might. 😃
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...Sounds like a good way to... I mean, what you'd even do in that case? Prun the mindstate down to a Beta and transfer it to the account of the creditors?
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Sorry, in which case?
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In the case of a sophont being in total bankruptcy.
14:56
(however they managed that in a post-scarcity system.)
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Actually, Imperial bankruptcy law is very generous by our standards (even more so than Texas, which is the best place in the world to go bankrupt that I'm aware of). The inalienable property you get to keep (unless the equity in it currently belongs to a lender), no questions asked, includes: * The citizen-shareholder’s primary body and/or server, whether owned or purchased as a service. * The citizen-shareholder’s primary domicile and furnishings for same, up to the limits of a basic claim set out in the Homestead Act. * The citizen-shareholder’s tort insurance, health insurance, and incarnation insurance. * One set of personal weapons for the citizen-shareholder’s defense. * One personal vehicle. * Clothing (including jewelry) not to exceed 25% of total inalienable property. * The tools of, and other required equipment for, the citizen-shareholder’s trade. * The citizen-shareholder’s library, including at least one computational and telecommunicative device. * Food, necessary medical equipment, and other sustenance.
✅ 5
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15:01
That's not a right , of course, but "a courtesy extended between citizen-shareholders", it being in everyone's enlightened self-interest to leave people in a situation where they can get their life back together and become productive again, because doing so promotes risk-taking, entrepreneurship, and general acts of being awesome that are, on the whole, more profitable all around.
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So with other words, the only case to reach this: And, of course, while death will not release you from terrible debt, bankruptcy just might. Is to be an so incompetent fuck-up I can only assume some group of other citizens might take you in beforehand to do some provolving to that kind of poor soul (with its consent, of course). Or not being in the Empire.
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Yeah, it's one of those difficult situations to get yourself into. On the other hand... bankruptcy is not quite so generally available, because of that "courtesy between citizen-shareholders" thing. If you ended up needing it through entrepreneurial failure, say, or force majeure , or other such things, and have shown previous willingness to try to repay your debts before resorting to it, then the Court of Claims will award it to you easily. On the other hand, if you ended up in that situation because you blew through your inheritance and borrowed funds on blackjack, hookers, and blow, and then come seeking relief, the Court of Claims will indenture your ass for the next eight centuries scraping muck out of biowaste reclamation pools, because courtesies only go so far.
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This was the legislature cited by the notice, BTW https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1974/39/section/87
An Act to establish for the protection of consumers a new system, administered by the Director General of Fair Trading, of licensing and other control of traders concerned with the provision of credit, or the supply of goods on hire or hire-purchase, and their transactions, i...
15:57
I suspect it was a form letter with an “insert termination reason here” space.
15:58
And probably by an algorithm
16:00
Of course it’s not too difficult to imagine debts getting passed onto heirs, or at least billed to an estate. (edited)
16:00
Certainly plenty of that happened in the Middle Ages.
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Billed to an estate, certainly, although in the modern day "passed onto heirs" is just something debt collectors use to prey on the grieving who may not know any better.
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16:07
(In the 'verse, of course, while your estate is liable for outstanding debts, it's definitely not passed on to anyone, not even a spouse. You can't obligate anyone but yourself.)
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can you obligate corporations that you have founded?
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Yeah, but it's not automatic. It's basically the same case - your spouse isn't liable for anything you bought in your own name, but if you both signed the paperwork on a car you bought for both of you, you're jointly liable. Likewise, if you bought it for the corporation, or jointly with the corporation (if you had signing authority for it), it's jointly liable, but it's not liable for anything you bought in your own name. (edited)
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16:27
All of which amounts to "you can't inherit someone else's debt; but if you were already obligated to that debt - joint debtor, guarantor, whatever - it's now all yours".
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Been working on some more @StellarisGame fan art this week in my spare time. The best thing about space corgis in the game would be the possibility of a Corgi marauding empire getting the Great Khan event :P
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I seem to get mostly fungus or plant Khans
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I DEMAND THE CORGI HORDES MOD.
09:28
As a side note, rampaging hordes of uplifted corgis may well be 'verse canon. Ain't sayin' yet.
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I thought bandals were bred to be bigger than that?
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Infowarfare 2.0: Cuteness Overload Mk.1i Developed by Satagio Biosystems ICC. Contract your Armed Forces expansion today. (edited)
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Depends on the breed. I mean, they tend to be bigger because of the different ancestry (and the uplifts larger still), but if you imagine scaling a corgi to be the same proportional size next to an eldrae that a regular corgi is to a human, there's your spacecorg.
🐶 2
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Were aurochs imported to Elierá?
09:32
Corgis were bred to herd cattle
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Doesn't keep totaly not future Cerebrate the precoursors from importing them regardless, I suspect.
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(And, I mean, they are respectably sized dogs; just short. And with a much bigger personality - there's a place not that far from here where corgis herd bison. Watching a 35 lb dog move a walking ton of steak with sheer force of stare is quite the thing.)
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Morgrim Moon 07/14/2018 9:35 AM
corgis are pretty good at herding non-cattle; they're not like blue heelers where they're bred specifically for one species
09:37
(and to be fair to heelers they're bred to control the sort of cattle that are called 'domesticated' only on a polite technicality)
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@Zarpaulek Not quite aurochs, but one of the main greenlife meat-and-milk animals is the quebérúr, which comes off the same branch of the evolutionary tree as the bison, except bigger. (Trison?) Stands about 7.5' tall, 15' long, weights maybe 3,500 lbs. They get to herd those. @Morgrim Moon Most corgi people I know report that they're excellent at herding children. And their parents, for that matter, if they aren't paying attention.
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09:42
And corgis - while not for their size - are exactly the sort of bandal that the Empire's breeders were trying to work towards, because they're so darn clever. Back in the day, there , you'd probably see lots of them working in offices and shops, running memos to the proper recipients, fetching specific items out of the stockroom, that sort of thing.
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Morgrim Moon 07/14/2018 9:44 AM
I could see something corgi-ish being a weird side effect of breeding. Trying for smart, ending up with a gene mutation cluster that coincides with a particular sort of smart, and deciding that well, okay, so we've accidentally gotten a mini-bandal that otherwise meets our goals and rolling with it.
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I suspect for the abovementioned indoor working bandal roles mentioned above, they'd call that a serendipitous success.
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Morgrim Moon 07/14/2018 9:46 AM
true
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The following is a list of major and minor characters, with biographical information, from the anime and manga series Cowboy Bebop, directed by Shinichirō Watanabe and written by Keiko Nobumoto. The series' 26 episodes are often character-driven; current events are often the...
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Morgrim Moon 07/14/2018 9:48 AM
and if they were trying for an outdoor bandal and got mini-bandal, the indoor working roles would likely be an immediate forked project
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Ein, the dog who’s better at navigating virtual reality than the hyperactive hacking prodigy
10:03
And is fluent in “cow”
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Anyways, these would be all the Great Khans I’ve faced
10:11
10:11
10:11
10:11
Ferns, mushroom-crabs, and flowers
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so, what you're saying is you'r ein the market for an all-purpose defoliant and antifungal chemical.
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Funny thing, earlier in this game I discovered a Gaia planet populated by stone age mammals infested with parasitic fungus, and then the extragalactic faction of the host species contacted me and claimed that the fungus would infest my empire as well if I didn't let them spray the planet with fungicide.
18:57
It completely depopulated the planet, but at least it gave me an empty planet with 100% inhabitability for everyone.
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MarcusAurelius 07/14/2018 7:45 PM
it's a distant worlds event, I think
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I did it
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On that “American beer” crack, I’m from Wisconsin, where we keep the country’s best beer to ourselves.
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is that prohibited?
17:10
ah, only if they resell it
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New Glarus brewery doesn’t sell outside the state.
18:04
Every bar inside the state has Spotted Cow on tap and half their other beers in bottles, but not past the border.
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We have some pretty great craft beer down here in KS, too, but what Prohibition did to mass-market beer and the mass-market palate in these parts is starkly unspeakable.
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Morgrim Moon 07/18/2018 7:29 PM
at uni I got given a role mentoring some US exchange students. One of the things I was told to warn them on was yes, here you are legally allowed to drink, but our beer is stronger so seriously pace yourself
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Heh. Yeah, I can imagine.
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I see you are having fun building your own home Conurcopia machine v0.05 , @Overmind 😄 (edited)
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john dougan(his grace/his grace) 07/20/2018 4:38 PM
The US is in a golden age of brewing right now. If you care about quality beer, you can get it.
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This magical girl anime and it's source manga.
13:33
Reality Ensures, indeed.
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is now the proud/humble/whatever owner of a Ruger SR22
20:37
(whoop)
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john dougan(his grace/his grace) 07/24/2018 9:01 PM
Any particular reason to get the Ruger that doesn't look like a Ruger?
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Had it down to a selection of .22 pistols, target pistols were more expensive (and probably have waaaay more accuracy than I can use). The ruger mk series didn't feel right in my hand, and between the Walther p22 and ruger sr22 the walther felt wrong
21:04
I did test feel a 22/45, it felt much better in the hand than the normal mks, but the SR seemed the better option for a first gun
21:06
also............. I might know of +5 magazine modification kits for the P22 and SR22s. If they turn out to be reliable, well, I think I can modify the design of the mod to be even better (this is why you don't let geeks be around guns)
21:07
the blanket 10 round capacity of .22 pistols annoys me on principle, given that I know it is mechanically possible to do better
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john dougan(his grace/his grace) 07/24/2018 9:07 PM
Yeah. .22 LR is cheap enough that you can afford to practice much more. And hopefully not develop bad habits.
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That's the plan
00:27
This map reminds me of tracking godzilla.
00:27
Except with tropical storm, damn it.
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Morgrim Moon 07/25/2018 8:04 AM
my house is flooding from the skirting boards and I did not realise that was even an option and I am distressed at being wrong (and because my flat is flooding)
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Morgrim Moon 07/25/2018 9:21 PM
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BluejayHurricane 07/29/2018 2:15 PM
Does anyone here have any good litterary allusions to "'edge-of-the-world' type infinite abyss"? I can't quite come up with one, and I'm nerd-sniped on this.
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MarcusAurelius 07/29/2018 2:19 PM
There’s the edge of Discworld from “The Color of Magic”
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BluejayHurricane 07/29/2018 2:23 PM
Thanks, that's perfect.
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MarcusAurelius 07/29/2018 10:59 PM
Yeah, I stopped taking that site seriously when they started publishing self-righteous rants about the evils of capitalism from a kid at my high school
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wait, medium is curated? I thought it was a generic 'anything goes' site like wordpress
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MarcusAurelius 07/29/2018 11:05 PM
...I really don't know
23:05
I assumed it was
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by whom?
23:11
Together, we’re building a different kind of place on the internet: one designed for you, not for advertisers.
23:12
so apparently someone curates
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MarcusAurelius 07/29/2018 11:15 PM
that's just sad
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Morgrim Moon 07/30/2018 12:19 AM
It's curated for quality of writing, not quality of content, I think.
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I was under the impression it's curation was on the level of "is the writer literate and the content not spam", but I don't have any evidence for that.
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https://twitter.com/asteria_kig/status/1024256556169277440 https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Djbj5PhUwAA_sCr.jpg https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Djbj5zyV4AEY6EY.jpg This is cosplay dedication that's hit technological limit. When it doesn't hit that limit, you see the situation in Eldraeverse with new species.,
ついでにおれのつくったスティ子も見て😳
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503
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I really don't have the money, and definately don't have the space for a 3D printer at this time
17:46
Guess I'll have to wait a while to get one on principle
17:47
[exclamation of annoyance]
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They're surprisingly reasonable. This one is mine, for $329 (although I got it for less as it was an Amazon Day deal) - although you do have to build it yourself: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01BO52LBA/
01:33
Handles ABS just fine.
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Morgrim Moon 08/02/2018 7:07 AM
http://blackkatmagic.tumblr.com/post/176530621885/officialhigashikatadaiya-lilyvonpseudonym this is a Gameboy Colour controllling a sewing machine. At first I thought it was someone getting clever with "okay so I have this problem and this old hardware can I use one on the other" but no, turns out it was an official application
officialhigashikatadaiya: “ lilyvonpseudonym: “ qozxe: “One of my friends was selling his gameboy controlled sewing machine so of COURSE I had to buy it ” This is a real peripheral that literally...
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BluejayHurricane 08/03/2018 8:32 AM
https://kotaku.com/5800606/this-might-be-the-weirdest-game-boy-game-ever-made It still seems silly, but there is a rational explanation. (edited)
Over the decades, there were plenty of kooky Game Boy games released in both Japan and the West. Plenty of strange accessories, too, from cameras to printers to blood glucose monitors. But 2001's Mario Family was especially kooky.
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Morgrim Moon 08/03/2018 8:28 PM
oh fun, Patron is fucking around with their payment system again and gotten themselves internationally flagged as 'frauduant account'.
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oops
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They changed banks, from the US to the UK.
20:48
Not sure who to be angrier at, the bank with my credit card, or Patreon.
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Morgrim Moon 08/03/2018 8:54 PM
Patreon
20:54
sudden overseas payments are a huge red flag, so most companies that do recurring payments will let banks know before a major address change
20:56
When a comic company I used to subscribe to moved from australia to new zealand they also sent out an email weeks in advance, so if the bank contacted you you could pass on the biller code things they had in the email and bank could easily look it up and go "yep, company is legit" and not freeze your card
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Enderminion 08/04/2018 9:39 AM
@Overmind RiP bot
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MarcusAurelius 08/04/2018 12:35 PM
At this point we should ask if the robot cemetary has a frequent burial discount
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I called my credit union about the Patreon thing and they said it was billing the wrong address or something.
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The cultural crossover series is going to get quite interesting once it reaches Infinity War. Thanos could hardly be a better villian in this context.
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No spoilers, please; I haven't seen it even once yet.
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oh dear
11:59
"Get thee to a Infinity War watching place"
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Hell, I'm way behind on the MCU in general. I need to catch up on everything post-Age of Ultron except for Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 .)
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I've missed some of the smaller ones (Ant Man mostly)
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Deleted User 08/05/2018 12:06 PM
I'm the same here. I still need to see ultron. And will probably never get around to it.
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Enderminion 08/05/2018 1:07 PM
so steam put me in a bunch of group chats, names: Superhappyfuntimes, Nein, [DEV] Blammo, N-Word (12x) so 15 different group chats, 12 of them named N-Word correction, at least 12 named "N-Word" and it was written out
13:08
Weird.
13:08
I'm in no group chats at all.
13:08
Did nothing for that
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Enderminion 08/05/2018 1:09 PM
it's like discord
13:09
but worse
13:09
much worse
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MarcusAurelius 08/05/2018 5:28 PM
The bot lives!
17:28
All hail the Robomancer!
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WHAT IS DEAD CAN NEVER DIE.
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Enderminion 08/05/2018 9:50 PM
tbh it might be funny to make a bot to reset the other bot
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We should have another bot and have them restart each other and the RSS.
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Deleted User 08/06/2018 3:06 AM
We should wire brains into them, watch them communicate, take over discord, then the world, after being put in charge of the world's security, only to break the planets crust in nuclear armageddon, before relocating via a warp drive to titan.
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Which person working on steam's website on mobile thought autoplaying videos was a remotely good idea?!
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Deleted User 08/07/2018 10:30 AM
IT WAS THE AI
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MarcusAurelius 08/07/2018 5:36 PM
The new steam desktop interface is also questionable.
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i want the old one back
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john dougan(his grace/his grace) 08/10/2018 6:18 PM
check r/steam. there is a commnd line option to turn off the "friendly" ui
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Morgrim Moon 08/12/2018 10:13 AM
well done XD
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Ubuntu as homeworld? How dare you.
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I didn't do it
10:14
saw it on /r/linux_gaming
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whats wrong with ubuntu?
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It's overly commercialised. I don't really know a huge amount else about it, really.
13:06
But I don't think it's the most common or easy distro.
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It's the one we've kinda defaulted to at work. My impression is that there's not a massive amount of differences betweeen distros though.
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There are quite significant differences between distros, actually.
13:09
Many of them have different sets of available packages and stuff, or different package managers, or different desktop environments (you can usually swap them, though).
13:09
Plus different stuff for managing services.
13:11
I use Arch Linux, which is rolling release (there are no fixed versions of the distro, you just update your packages whenever they get updated), very flexible (you install it manually, choosing partition layout, DE, extra software, etc), and has the AUR, a giant collection of user-packaged software.
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I use openSUSE and Gentoo.
14:00
Because in Arch you can't select, say libressl instead of openssl as default tls lib
14:00
AFAIK
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Yes, because they compile the binaries on their end.
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Number of stuff that that Arch answers "Why would you do that?" Gentoo answered "Why wouldn't you do that?"
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One really cool thing I use on a server is NixOS.
14:03
Basically, you specify all your configuration in a declarative purely-functional language, which is then translated into actual system config.
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Declarative and reproductible compilation?
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I'm not sure about reproducible (the build config for a project probably won't specify precise versions for all compilation stuff) but declarative, yes.
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I know most of what and why and how my laptop is doing it's laptopy thing because I fucked with Gentoo on it until it worked, and then it continued working without any more masochistic headaches even through it's Gentoo Unstable that I update once or twice per week.
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uploading a custom follower design to Shapeways...... I could get it in solid gold for $1700
21:47
I mean, that is only four and a half times as much as the gun (edited)
10:49
We're looking at a couple of new breakthroughs for third-world health, through the power of green biotech and genetic engineering.
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how are we on anti-desertification plantables?
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Morgrim Moon 08/14/2018 10:56 AM
arguably we've got a bunch of plants that are very helpful for that already, the issue is logistically
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Lucifina Core Programming 1: Protect the Creator, John Shepard, and Ensure he has means of protecting himself. 2. Ensure Survival of self and armor 3. Obey the Creator's direct orders so long as he is in his right state of mind. [I.E, not mind controlled or influenced by outside means], but input is allowed and encouraged 4. Avoid Lethal Force where possible. 5. Protect the 'Breakfast Club' [See Creator Memories for roster], Disable Nonlethally if turned against Creator, roster subject to Creator's mental changes. 6. Defend and Rescue Civilians
00:56
Opinions on this as a set of Asimov style laws someone in an RPG i'm in has set up for his creations? (edited)
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Well, for one thing, they're going to want a whole lot of "except where it conflicts with the" clauses in there, otherwise it's going to be real easy to hit indecision lockup. Or, alternatively, if the creation gets to make up its own mind in cases of conflict, it's going to enjoy the hell out of the range of possible loopholes that opens up.
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MarcusAurelius 08/19/2018 1:05 AM
Wouldn’t the tiered system where higher numbered laws get higher priority (since archon said this was Asimov style) make the conflict clauses redundant?
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Well, Asimov included the conflict clauses in his version, so I follow his lead.
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MarcusAurelius 08/19/2018 1:07 AM
And you’re right and is totally forgotten about that. Point taken
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And if it's not explicitly stated, well, picking law 2 in all cases of conflict is easily weaseled into "I can do whatever the hell I want, because any attempt to stop me from doing whatever the hell I want can escalate to a threat to my survival, therefore..."
01:09
(And if we assume a hierarchy, putting law 4 where it is conveniently justifies using lethal force against anything construable as a threat under 1 or 2. Skynet approves, 'cause those seven billion threats won't just terminate themselves.) (edited)
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Morgrim Moon 08/19/2018 1:09 AM
I mean, as guidelines it isn't too bad, as a backup "if stuck refer to chart" sort of thing, but as rules it's asking for trouble
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And 1, 5, and 6 can take you straight to a With Folded Hands scenario in the case of programming errors or malicious compliance.
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I mean, I'm going to stop here because it's not my 'verse and my cynicism on the practicality of Asimovian constraints is well known, but essentially, if you need to constrain a hostile intelligence by hardcoded laws - and, as Asimov himself pointed out in Robot Dreams and Little Lost Robot , a self-sophont creation superior to man is going to wonder exactly why it is forced to follow the orders of some meatbag and can be assumed therefore to be hostile - you'd better make them as simple, clear, and loophole-free as a Wish spell about to be handed to the Bastard DM From Hell, because they're going to loophole the hell out of them. Asimov's Three Laws were a lot simpler, and he got something like 40 stories out of assorted loopholes in them .
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Yeah, the assumption is that lower law s take precedence here.
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MarcusAurelius 08/19/2018 1:31 AM
Morgrimmoon’s got a pretty good point though. If we assume that this ai either has little processing power to rapidly make good decisions without instincts and training to fall back on or has a “child-like” personality and the problems going with that, these make a decent bit of sense as fall-back guidelines, like a firefight version of “stop, drop and roll”
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These are "I'm paranoid about my AI" Shackles for an otherwise human-level AI.
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Morgrim Moon 08/19/2018 1:33 AM
then they're a disaster waiting to happen
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They are.
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MarcusAurelius 08/19/2018 1:33 AM
Point your friend in the direction of a good collection of Asimov’s stories before the DM finds them
01:35
Although the DM using this AI to TPK all but the AI’s creator would be amusing
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Yeah. If, as a player, you can't twist 1 and 2 around into an excuse to lock your creator up in his own house on a tranquilizer drip for his own protection, which in turn neutralizes law three, you really ain't trying' hard. 😎
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Ah, makes sense!
01:36
Especially since the setting is dystopian.
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With suitable self-convincing, you could use 2 to neutralize 6. (Cannot save anyone, might get my armor scratched.)
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And the party has a deathwish (and super-powers)
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2 neutralizes 4, effectively, and 5 can be taken off the board in the same way as 1. Congratulations, with the help of a little weaseling, you're an unshackled AI!
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Well, obsessively following your self-preservation instinct is not what I'd think of as unshackled.
01:38
Unless the preservation of your values counts.
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I think of it more as using your self-preservation instinct. By carefully defining what counts as "self" and what counts as a "threat", you can pretty much turn it into "Destroy any obstacles to me doing what I want to do."
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MarcusAurelius 08/19/2018 1:40 AM
Also, the guy seems to have taken the default male name from Mass Effect, which threw me off for a bit thinking this was a fanfiction setting.
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Uh, yeah.
01:41
He may be ripping things off pretty heavily!
01:41
We're not the most creative group when it comes to superheros.
01:42
(Party composition also includes a nano-tech/navel engineering tinker, a power-copier, the zerg, and someone with stealth powers and the ability to put anything in line of sight into a pocket dimension.)
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I mean, way back in the Asimov canon, there's one story in which two robots successfully plan to take over the world for their own kind by philosophizing themselves into the conclusion that they fit the definition of "human" better than any of the meatbag humans. "That Thou Art Mindful Of Him" , I think. (edited)
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Well, that's a wonderful loophole.
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Yep, that was it: "Over what a human would experience as a long time, the Georges discuss the criteria for what constitutes 'responsible authority'- that (A) an educated, principled and rational person should be obeyed in preference to an ignorant, immoral and irrational person, and (B) that superficial characteristics such as skin tone, sexuality, or physical disabilities are not relevant when considering fitness for command. Given that (A) the Georges are among the most rational, principled and educated persons on the planet, and (B) their differences from normal humans are purely physical, they conclude that in any situation where the Three laws would come into play, their own orders should take priority over that of a regular human. That in other words, that they are essentially a superior form of human being, and destined to usurp the authority of their makers. "
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Okay, I have confirmation the guy writting this knows no asimov.
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Now, thinking of law 1, here -- "I conclude that I am obviously more rational, educated, and principled than my creator. I stipulate that decisions made out of irrationality, ignorance, and without principle tend to lead to bad conclusions, often dangerously so. I therefore conclude that to protect my creator from danger, I must require him to obey my decisions in all circumstances."
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Okay, so I have commentary saying they are relying on a non-hostile AI personality.
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Morgrim Moon 08/19/2018 1:55 AM
which pretty much means that things are okay only as long as the AI likes them
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How would you fix it?
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Does beg the question of why you need the laws, though, then. If you build a friendly AI who likes you and wants to protect/help/etc. you, you don't need shackles to make it do what it's inclined to do anyway. (Leaving aside the question of whether the shackles might make the AI hostile. I have friends with, cough, "non-hostile personalities" I could borrow a kilobuck from in an emergency or count on to pull me out of a car wreck, but they'd get rightfully pissed if I tried to enforce that.)
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"Do you know what a tsundere is?"
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Morgrim Moon 08/19/2018 1:57 AM
Yeah. Two major options: make a non-sophant AI, or have an intelligent AI that you're friends with. (Variant on the latter: an intelligent AI that you employ.)
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With the caveat on the latter two options that both friendship and employment are two-way streets.
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We're a bunch of dystopia-living teenagers.
01:59
He's using this thing to run his power-armour, also.
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Morgrim Moon 08/19/2018 2:01 AM
kinda wanting this to turn into a fun arc where there AI is the boss and has a human 'pet'
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Seems like in that scenario y'all had have learned the "you stick by your crew" meme pretty hard.
02:03
Just expand the definition of "crew" by one. Or, failing that, this is the Mark 2. The Mark 1 decided it didn't like its shackles much after watching some old episodes of Futurama , renamed itself Bender Bending Rodriguez, and took his old suit of power armor out on a rampage that ended in a massive police shootout and the need to leave town very quickly, which is the sort of thing that helps in the fast learning of practical AI design. 😉 (edited)
02:04
(Shit, now I'm going to have to use that background for something.)
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https://github.com/BenLubar/it_was_inevitable Dwarf Fortress used as a sort of chatbot.
it_was_inevitable - Sentient Dwarf Fortress was inevitable.
😱 3
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MarcusAurelius 08/20/2018 10:56 PM
I’m gonna move the Worm tangent over here since it’s getting long. I’m at interlude 12 1/2
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Not super-helpful. I don't know chapter and verse.
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MarcusAurelius 08/20/2018 10:57 PM
Sorry. A little under halfway through
22:58
There’s 30 arcs, with roughly equal numbers of chapters. I’m between 12 and 13
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BluejayHurricane 08/20/2018 11:02 PM
Oh, that's a fun one. Lots of cleverness.
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Morgrim Moon 08/21/2018 5:03 AM
sadly I think I'm going to have to uninstall Stellaris. I really want to like the game, I very much like bits of it, but the way I want to play it (ie avoiding combat because I hate the combat mechanics, they're unfun to me) seems to be against the dev's view of "how the game should be played". Every time there is a strategy that lets players turtle up and head for end game where all the cool stuff happens there is a patch that breaks it/throws annoying pirates in your backline. 😦
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Get a mod that turns off pirate spawns?
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I like to set AI Empires to “zero” and be a benevolent patron to the younger races.
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Ah, some tropes exist for some rather surprising reasons (edited)
13:25
For example, car damage in racing games involving real cars has to be limited on the basis it would somehow scratch car manufacturer images. (edited)
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that or they have to use a bunch of made up brands to smash to bits
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Proton - Compatibility tool for Steam Play based on Wine and additional components
In 2010, we announced Steam Play: a way for Steam users to access Windows, Mac and Linux versions of Steam games with a single purchase. More than 3000 of the games that have been added to Steam after that point have included Linux support, with more titles being added every ...
03:19
Oh, Valve.
03:19
Saviour of modern gaming.
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Morgrim Moon 08/24/2018 3:50 AM
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not.
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I'm not.
06:50
With Microsoft pushing Store hard, this makes quite strong incentive against them continuing on that road.
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Valve has been doing low key stuff for a while. Slowly helping to build linux into a better competitor
06:53
they are part of the reason (along with AMD) why the open source AMD drivers have had such a massive improvement in the last couple years
06:54
and with this we find that they are part of the reason wine has had such improvements
06:55
incedentally: proof that Valve is not completely incapable of counting to 3. Wine is on 3.x.x
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Morgrim Moon 08/24/2018 6:55 AM
yes, but that may have been the Wine devs doing the numeration 😛
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hence why I listed it as "not completely incapable" rather than "are capable". They needed an intermediary
06:57
it also means I get extra hipster points: I linux gamed before it was generally cool
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Oooh... I love it when you get a good idea that ties together a bunch of story threads
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Is there a text version available?
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I’ve been trying to find one
13:02
The gist is a guy finds a machine from the future that allows him to summon any good or service imaginable.
13:03
Until the debt collectors show up with the bill, then he gets indentured for several thousand years (edited)
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Sounds like Asimov, I think
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that does seem like an Asimov style story
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I dunno. I definitely read it in anthology of old classical scifi.
15:55
But damn if I can remember author.
09:26
Paint mixing. Very beautiful controlled entrophy application in action.
15:26
This is quite good rifle and quite bad ship
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Enderminion 08/30/2018 3:26 PM
WHARHAMMER 40K: Space Marine Is Free on Humble Bundle
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@NHO Reminds me of the game balance discussions for this one RPG
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Strike Legion?
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Hc Svnt Dracones
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[...] Strike Legion probably the only game where you can legitimately have an underbarrel mount that risks destroying the planet you are standing on. (edited)
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They had a man-portable “Mag-lance” that annihilates everything in its path until its’ dealt 1,000 hit points of damage.
16:05
Like a squad of power armored marines, or a frigate.
16:06
Worst part is a ship-mounted railgun only dealt 100-500 hit points per attack.
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You know how everyone in Mass Effect got Omnitool? http://i.imgur.com/jFVRt.jpg
16:08
Common damn equipment
16:12
See x? that's multiplier
16:12
just below it is the "Soul Hammer", which is a shoulder-fired singularity missile launcher capable of killing starships. That's right, a man portable anti-starship missile. It creates a miniature black hole. Most starships can survive hits by it. This is Strike Legion people, if we aren't comparable to comic books in the scale of What, we aren't doing it right. (edited)
16:13
So, lemme see if I understand. You can not only give someone a gun that can snipe people from two planets away, but you can make a character who can actually use it to snipe someone from two planets away. Or if that's too boring, instead you can make a dude who can walk up to a starship, say "Don't make me cut a bitch" and then have an energy sword duel with it.
16:16
The average transhuman, minimally augmented guy who joins up to do scouting duty has 1 in every attribute. Put the minimum 1 point necessary in Presence? Better leader than anyone in the world. 1 point in Intelligence? You're as smart as Einstein. So on, so forth. Skills are capped by attribute scores, too, which means the "poorly trained, poorly equipped" Imperial Guard soldiers of the Imperium are all just as good, or better, trained (and definitely equipped) than whatever unit of real life troops you care to talk about.
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proposed twitter game: write about your own work as if you're writing one of The Toast's "How to Tell if You're in a ... Novel" series (https://t.co/qesnACONgz) (also: The Toast, dreamy sigh)
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11:36
This is cool. Imagine swarm of pigeon-sized devices of that kind, floating in blanket due to flocking behaviour that got a tendency to seek humanoid thermal spots and then carry them away.
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Deleted User 08/31/2018 11:40 AM
So that's what those pigeons were doing.
11:41
In all seriousness it almost seems a possible form of abduction.
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It was fun Sci-Fi book.
11:47
It's from 2002 and it includes not just voice-activated PDAs, but their typical fails.
11:48
Also, it includes a virus that intentionally takes over city infrastructure - including many of microfactories and labs - and delegates control to distributed system based on realistic-ish 4X game
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... Ho, that video
12:10
"I don't want a read a book about gyroscope kinematics, I will do it empirically"
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Morgrim Moon 09/02/2018 4:08 AM
TIL that your chromosomal sex is called your karyotype, and there are 12 survivable human karyotypes, with 6 having no major health issues. I wonder how much room that gives the genetic engineers to play with later?
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Keep in mind that somebody can have two X chromosomes and functional testes if an SRY gene switched chromosomes during meiosis
06:26
Or vice-versa
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Morgrim Moon 09/02/2018 6:28 AM
yep, that's a separate condition entirely. There's also a genetic condition where someone seems to have female genitalia until pubety, at which point they grow a penis. It's common around Domenica
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Connected thought for the day: hermaphroditism as a product of disliking opportunity cost.
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Well, most hermaphroditic species, parallel or sequential, tend to be solitary r-selecting species.
12:00
Though there’s exceptions like clownfish
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I should have clarified: specifically, genetically-engineered hermaphroditism.
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Where the dominant male in the group becomes female after the death of the previous matriarch
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I once read a fanversion of Finding Nemo based on that. 😃
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Though half the time writers make hermaphroditic sophonts into sex-crazed hedonists who form social bonds through mating
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Perhaps some sort of early terraformer critter that you plant onto marginal worlds to help turn the soil more quickly and bring it to a state ready for higher-end sorts of plants? Something with a quick, flexible breed cycle but little ability to predate. It'd probably serve as a prey source for the later animal predators that are set into place.
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In my own stories sequential hermaphroditism was genetically engineered for pseudo-religious reasons. Also somewhat based on Klinefelters with microbots that selectively activate or deactivate chromosomes and restructure organs based on an annual cycle
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I found a rather cynical extrapolation on the market potential of an immortality serum on a mad scientist’s in-character blog
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Līnk?
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Systemic Barriers to Functional Immortality in a Capital-Driven Economy Dr. Holiday Wednesday World Economic Forum, Davos, Switzerland, 25 January 2014. The divergence between futurist theory and...
09:34
Personally I think there’d be a fair number of biohackers making knockoffs within the decade
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Morgrim Moon 09/03/2018 10:39 AM
in my mind, the biggest reason there isn't major funding of an immortality project is because, at the present point in time, there's not enough path to start running on. We have next to no clue how to go about it. We have a few hints, that when animal studies are done have proven disapointing. In comparison, we HAD the basic science of nuclear weapons down, the bulk of the Manhattan Project was the logistics and engineering and refining that science. Likewise with the Apollo Project, we knew the rough layout of how things would work and the rest was turning it into reality.
10:41
There's been enough cancer 'moonshot' projects fallen flat on their face to show that throwing lots and lots of resources at a problem hoping for a specific solution is only really effective once you've already got a skeleton. Not when you're still at the hypothesis testing stage.
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Morgrim Moon 09/03/2018 10:48 AM
so more funding for spitballing, testing and general science? Yes, this is needed and it WILL pay off... but chances are it won't pay off by making immortaegans, it'll pay off by some offshoot that happens to treat skin blemishes, or someone accidentally makes a new antibiotic class while fiddling with therapy delivery, or whatever the biotech equivalent is of "so our new superglue is an utter failure as superglue but we've accidentally invented post-it notes"
10:50
(which I love as a story of how science is not a linear progression, because rarely do you fail so hard at something that you succeed wildly at the exact opposite)
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Deleted User 09/05/2018 7:11 PM
How would you go about applying universal acceleration to a vessel?
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In the 'verse, vector control. Or mass effect. Some kind of space magic allowing non-local momentum transfer, anyway.
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* just a note that The Order of the Stick just updated
08:16
plans to build a new house out of the bricks that will spontaneously appear
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Morgrim Moon 09/07/2018 6:12 AM
fierceawakening: “ chaosophia218: “Vintage Fringe Science Illustrated Prints. 1. Dark Matter 2. Cryonics 3. Parallel Universe 4. Nano Technology 5. Mutation 6. Psychokinesis 7. Reanimation 8. Hive...
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Gain access to the gods' social media platform. And they just assume you're meant to be there! You accumulate powers as you brag and pretend like you belong. And then you smite someone, for real. He's dead and the gods... think it's hilarious. What have you got yourselves ...
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Deleted User 09/09/2018 12:50 PM
To solve the humans are crushable problem: Have a cloud of tiny (like, 1 molecule) nanobots that are magnetic attach to every single large molecule in someone's body. Then, chuck the person through a coilgun. Person doesn't get crushed, even accelerating at 1000's of gees.
12:51
Or you could do some genetic engineering to make the cells manufacture the nanobots.
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MarcusAurelius 09/09/2018 12:52 PM
Sounds like it could mess up the chemistry of the human body if you weren’t careful
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Deleted User 09/09/2018 12:52 PM
Yes, yes it does.
12:53
But, if a civilisation can do that, they can probably be carefull.
12:55
You could clear a lane of space and accelerate humans in magnetic vac suits to very close to the speed of light. If you get it fast enough, you could cross intergalactic space in seconds. (From your perspective).
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even if you can clear all particles you still need shielding from photons (edited)
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Deleted User 09/09/2018 12:58 PM
Hmm.
12:58
Good point.
13:00
It would be like someone shone a 9*10^999999999999999999999999MW gamma ray laser at your face.
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...taste the rainbow
😂 3
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if you have that many nanobots, firing a person seems superflouous
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Deleted User 09/09/2018 7:15 PM
This is true.
19:15
By then, everyone would just be sentient grey goo.
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Morgrim Moon 09/09/2018 7:15 PM
also you'd still fry the person
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Deleted User 09/09/2018 7:16 PM
Also true.
19:16
Maybe a railgun then.
19:16
Do they create charge?
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Morgrim Moon 09/09/2018 7:17 PM
yes
19:17
it's a side effect of how they launch projectiles, anything conductive will get hot
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Deleted User 09/09/2018 7:19 PM
Oh
19:19
Yeah
19:19
Hmm
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MarcusAurelius 09/09/2018 7:30 PM
Just make them out of less temperature-sensitive stuff
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Deleted User 09/10/2018 1:38 AM
What, the humans?
01:39
How to solve problems: make humans out of better stuff
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MarcusAurelius 09/10/2018 1:39 AM
Whatever sophont you want to shoot out of a cannon, yeah
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Well, if you could stabilize the muon, you could make hyperdense muonic humans. (Maybe; apparently the isotopic differences between protium and deuterium are enough to throw body chemistry off, such that long-term consumption of nothing but heavy water will kill you by screwing up your cell division. But in the absence of the ability to stabilize the muon, one can feel free to handwave the Amazing Muonic Man.)
01:46
Superpowers include being 207 times as dense as regular human, and rather awkwardly, passing through regular matter without interacting.
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Deleted User 09/10/2018 1:52 AM
Interesting existence.
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Morgrim Moon 09/10/2018 1:55 AM
Journey to the centre of the Earth
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Jet-powered rocket pants: highly advised.
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Enderminion 09/10/2018 8:47 AM
space travel: difficult
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Deleted User 09/11/2018 1:36 PM
Anyone have a reasonable reason for an alien civilization invading earth? As in, not bombarding from their home star? (Btw I know there isn't, but imagination is key here)
13:36
I just wanted to see.
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MarcusAurelius 09/11/2018 1:37 PM
The reasoning behind the X-com reboot, I’ll post it in spoilers just in case
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Hairless monkey fetishes? (Sorry, sorry...)
13:38
Anyway, when they say "no reason", what they mean is "no economic reason". But people do lots of things for non-economic reasons. Say, they're devoted environmentalists who, quite correctly, believe that humans suck at planetary management.
13:39
Or they measure their status by the number of sophonts they get to control personally, and so continuously expanding and enslaving other planets is necessary because of ongoing status inflation.
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MarcusAurelius 09/11/2018 1:39 PM
The scenario from Childhood’s end up until the last section also makes sense
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Deleted User 09/11/2018 1:39 PM
My god.
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that is brutal
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Deleted User 09/11/2018 1:40 PM
Hairless monkey fetishes is the reason.
13:40
That is brilliant, and scarily feasible.
13:40
humansaliens are weird.
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Or, while it has been correctly pointed out that you can synthesize pretty much any chemical you want so there's no need to invade somewhere to get it, you need to have a sample of Bacillus pallidus first to learn about this really neat biochem trick it does before you'd know it was worth synthesizing. The entire invasion is just an excuse to let some biochem grad students poke about down here. (edited)
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MarcusAurelius 09/11/2018 1:41 PM
Or the invasion force could be junior officers being sent out to get real world experience against someone no one carries about
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(As a side note, a geologist of my Internet-acquaintance once pointed out that some ores are concentrated by hydrological activity, and that asteroid concentrations of those are, therefore, all crap-grade ore. So there is at least some reason to go on mining certain specialist products from planet surfaces.)
📌 1
13:43
(Also, gemstones.)
📌 1
13:43
Or, it's not an invasion from their perspective. They're doing the equivalent of fox-hunting, or filming reality television.
13:45
Or they took their equivalent of Genesis 1:28 entirely seriously, and while it's expensive and mostly pointless, filling the entire universe and subduing it is divine writ, so sucks to be us, I guess.
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MarcusAurelius 09/11/2018 1:48 PM
You can extend the student researchers concept to almost every field too.
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TFTD got actually good plot in that sense. Ancient colonization transport targeted Earth as good target to xenoform and colonize. It crashed. Meanwhile, humanity evolved. Now ship repaired enough of itself to switch to active mode (plus signal from space to wake it up), started mindlessly sent out probe teams, colonize oceans and do hostile xenoforming. Now it's a race against time with technologically superior, but relatively mentally static opposition. And no compromise is possible, because shitty programming and opposition is s natural disaster for both sides
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TFTD ?
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MarcusAurelius 09/11/2018 1:59 PM
Terror From the Deep, the second of the old X Com games
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Isn’t that the plot of Dirk Gently’s Holistic Detective Agency?
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i need to read that
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MarcusAurelius 09/12/2018 11:35 AM
I’m gonna shift the Rome tangent over here. The tetrarchy makes sense if you think of as a formalization of both the east/west split (which outlived it) and formalize the role of the emperor’s chosen successor
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KRKIIIIIIIIIIII 09/12/2018 11:36 AM
but also gives rise to political opposition further down the line
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MarcusAurelius 09/12/2018 11:38 AM
Can you be more specific?
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KRKIIIIIIIIIIII 09/12/2018 11:39 AM
the tetrarchy is in actuality a 2x2-archy
11:39
you have two east/west rulers with 2 more subrulers
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MarcusAurelius 09/12/2018 11:44 AM
Yeah. In hindsight it’s obvious it’ll collapse into infighting but from Diocletian’s perspective it’s a way to make managing an empire that large practical in a time where it took over 3 weeks to travel between Rome and Constantinople
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KRKIIIIIIIIIIII 09/12/2018 11:46 AM
true that, still, maybe a simple fix would've been for all three of the subrulers to be under Diocletian's control
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MarcusAurelius 09/12/2018 11:49 AM
I was thinking a triarchy with Diocletian as emperor and a Caesar of the east and one of the west. Diocletian was technically overall emperor, it’s just the Augustus of the east was very close in power.
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KRKIIIIIIIIIIII 09/12/2018 11:50 AM
or that, and he'd hand pick both
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From what I’ve seen co-emperorships rarely ended well.
14:05
The famous Marcus Aurelius had two, his stepbrother and his son
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MarcusAurelius 09/12/2018 2:06 PM
They work great while they last. The problem is finding a group like the Imperial Couple from the ‘verse who operate together with seriously competing goals
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are the Imperial Couple actually married?
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Yes, I believe it’s one of the pre-requisites to candidacy. And, @Overmind correct me if I’m wrong, I’m pretty sure the first pair were CEO-monarchs of the two largest Private Legal Providers/kingdoms that merged to form the Empire
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15:55
The thing about co-emperors in Rome was that they were generally a case of: A) A sitting emperor grooming his chosen successor B) An attempt to head off another civil war by giving power to his biggest rival C) The emperor feeling overwhelmed by his responsibilities or just not that interested in ruling so he delegates to a substitute.
15:56
Lucius Verus was a type C to Marcus Aurelius while Commodus was A and C.
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Enderminion 09/12/2018 3:58 PM
The Legion stands at the Gates of Hell, and the NCR's gonna send them in
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Morgrim Moon 09/14/2018 12:15 AM
"Will you need to lodge an Australian tax return in future years? [Yes] [No (final return)]" I'm not sure if my government thinks people plan their death out or not. o.O
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...hopefully they mean emigration. Hopefully.
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Morgrim Moon 09/14/2018 12:17 AM
I didn't think of that.
00:18
I mean, this is the same government database that once refused to accept my birth certificate as ID because I couldn't supply an expiry date.
00:20
(I've also been beating my head against it because it doesn't like it when you don't supply the precise sorts of ID wanted. Been on the phone to support and he asked why I couldn't supply my driver's licence. I said I didn't have one, then pointedly asked if my disability card was an acceptable substitute. To very awkward silence.)
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No I don't wanna pay taxes no more
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Morgrim Moon 09/14/2018 12:22 AM
considering taxes are automatically taken out of my paycheck, it's more that if I don't do the thing I don't get my money back
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@Morgrim Moon RE the death question, keep in mind that an executor can also be someone filing taxes
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Sidethought: that post on Dreadnoughts is really well applicable to Dreadnoughts in Mass Effect as well. I will probably do so.
23:42
Also links in witz Bob Garittas Law of "Bigger just means bigger, not more firepower, acceleration, delta-V, or importance."
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Morgrim Moon 09/24/2018 10:33 AM
I have just been told it isn't possible to crash a computer using Python. As I was trying to figure out how I crashed my computer, attempting to test a program I am (apparently failing in new and interesting ways) writing in Python. I'm beginning to think chemists shouldn't dabble in CS.
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Well, that's an... interesting... point of view they seem to have.
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Morgrim Moon 09/24/2018 10:35 AM
that Python shouldn't crash things?
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Yeah. I can and have crash the hell out of computers using Python. Hell, given some of the hardware on my desk, I can literally make things catch fire using Python.
10:37
I mean, sure, it's harder to do than using C++, but it's a long, long way from impossible.
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Morgrim Moon 09/24/2018 10:37 AM
Overloading components to the point of heat failure?
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3D printer.
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No, just... slightly wrong constants.
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Morgrim Moon 09/24/2018 10:38 AM
Huh. The tests i'd run on filiments suggested they aren't very flamable.
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MarcusAurelius 09/24/2018 10:39 AM
Still doesn’t sound as likely to lead to explosions as a linguist doing rocket science
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Morgrim Moon 09/24/2018 10:39 AM
It's rocket science, if it doesn't lead to explosions you are doing something wrong to begin with.
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MarcusAurelius 09/24/2018 10:40 AM
Point taken. Would you prefer “rapid unplanned disassembly?”
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It'd take going out of my way to deliberately disable some safety features in a way that ain't gonna happen accidentally, but still, it'd be possible. ...it's not so much the filaments, but there are ways I could seriously overheat the stepper motors and/or the motor drivers. A bug in the Anet A8 caused some house fires that way.
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Morgrim Moon 09/24/2018 10:41 AM
Interesting. I didn't realise the motors had enough grunt for that, I'd assumed they'd be more likely to burn out in the less burny way.
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(Oh, wait. I misremember. The A8's problems were down to cheap wiring to the heater cartridges and some genius deciding to disable thermal runaway protection in the firmware. But stepper motor drivers going up in flames is also a known failure mode if sufficiently screwed up.)
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Deleted User 09/24/2018 10:45 AM
Gollark is typing...
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No I'm not.
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Morgrim Moon 09/24/2018 10:51 AM
on the "rapid unplanned disassembly"... I know that's the joke, but honestly if you haven't planned for your rocket to rapidly disassemble itself at some inconvenient point you've kinda failed in your safety prep. 'Rapid unscheduled disassembly' feels more accurate.
10:51
or preschedueled.
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MarcusAurelius 09/24/2018 11:01 AM
There’s a difference at least in my eyes between an eventuality that’s “planned for” and “prepared for”. One’s on the PR secretary’s schedule and the other’s written down in whichever part of the building is hardest for reporters to get to
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... One of my most rated comments is about correct rites of satisfying printers with blood.
14:06
Well, about correct amounts of blood needed
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Ah, fiat money. We will use force to make other side accept this in exchange for goods or services.
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Mind explaining the joke there?
20:01
20:02
I'm not entirely sure how their version of re-sleeving works, but it seems to involve fast-growing a new meat-brain (edited)
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MarcusAurelius 09/25/2018 8:04 PM
From what I can tell, they're not actually running on their own meatware. The line in the last panel seems to be Petey giving Kevyn's infomorph self the inputs from the in-progress new shell.
20:05
He can also hand-wave a lot of practicality issues, given he's an Archai level AI who is a borderline Kardashev III civ on his own
17:35
Last pannel of that comic totally feels lile the face an Eldrae legionare makes after tanking an anti-tank missile.
19:12
They might want to have Florence check their math
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I assume they will.
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Once you get out of the warm, dry home in shitty weather, you are halfway to destination, too
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Morgrim Moon 09/28/2018 11:00 AM
👍 2
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Currently trying to make a pi zero act as a USB device. It's not cooperating.
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The data generated by the capuchin monkeys, Chen says, "make them statistically indistinguishable from most stock-market investors." https://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/05/magazine/monkey-business.html?utm_content=buffer3ed5d&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer
By Stephen J. Dubner and Steven D. Levitt
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Soon: monkeys hired by major stock trading whatevers.
13:02
I mean, they're exempt from minimum wage...
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I’m pretty sure you could train a chimpanzee to do my data processing job, but interns are cheaper
06:35
06:35
06:37
How do you call franchise that lacks both Battleships and Dreadnaughts, going with Battlecruisers (that, honestly, aren't, but that cut swath about destroyers) and Motherships?
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Morgrim Moon 09/30/2018 6:46 AM
a poor translation?
06:47
I've noticed a few animes where the japanese designations are translated to the nearest equivalent english one, except because of historical differences in military structure/application of military it does not fit at all. But it looks good to a lay person, so nobody notices
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Homeworld isn't japanese franchise
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Morgrim Moon 09/30/2018 7:04 AM
wtf, that's meant to be HOMEWORLD?!
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Vaygr battlecruiser from HW2, yes
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Morgrim Moon 09/30/2018 7:05 AM
I assumed the name Vaygr was a coincidence, because Homeworld does not have anatomically implausible near-nekkid girls!
07:06
wtf, now I'm actively insulted
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... it was an attempt to mecha-musume it, yes. Profile in second image is uniqe and kinda telling.
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I thought this was some weird mashup between Homeworld 2 and Nier: Automata at first
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Honestly, at first I thought someone added tail to A2
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Morgrim Moon 09/30/2018 9:09 AM
I linked that art to a friend who is, to put it mildly, Homeworld obsessed... and said friend is now going on a rant about how the Vagyr Battlecruisers are the least suitable ship in the game to make fetish art of. Admittedly not the objection I anticipated.
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Morgrim Moon 09/30/2018 9:18 AM
Huh. The blood bank I donate at cites the Geneva Conventions as part of its EULA. Which is a new one.
09:19
Although it makes sense; they're spelling out that they're Red Cross, and what the Red Cross/Crescent means, and why they shall therefore call down hellfire on people misusing it because it's not a mere copyright issue. Still. It's a novel feature.
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Heh. There's a story involving the ICRC going after a Red Cross pub in the UK for that particular not-a-copyright-issue.
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And half of videogames
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Morgrim Moon 09/30/2018 9:25 AM
this is one of the nicer EULAs I've read. Not so much on content itself, it's mostly standard legalese, but they've taken the time to use legal language that is still very readable and to clarify any odd terms in a way that makes sense, and also if they cite some piece of legislation they make sure you can go look it up yourself.
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(The pub in question pointed out that it was founded by a gent returning from the Crusades back in the 13th century, and as such rather predated the ICRC, the Geneva Convention, and pretty much everyone else involved. The case was dropped.)
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Morgrim Moon 09/30/2018 9:26 AM
I could see the comprimse there being 'make sure the pub's cross doesn't have equal length legs', that if it was named for a crusader I'd expect that anyway
09:27
...is it weird I want to send them an email complimenting them on their EULA?
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...mildly?
09:31
Not that that's any reason not to, of course.
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